In this Monday morning 30 minute dose of mindset I’m joined by Performance Coach and Hypnotherapist Elliot Roe and we talk about what gets in our way and holds us back in almost every aspect of our lives. It’s an amazing session of discovery and insight you do not want to miss!
- Understand how we sabotage ourselves
- Look at where trauma comes from and how it lives in the body
- Discussion on things that inhibit us from action
FOR MORE ON ELLIOT, HERE’S WHERE YOU CAN FIND HIM:
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TRANSCRIPT OF OUR CONVERSATION:
00:00 Jeff: All right. Welcome back. This is Jeff. And then you’re listening to mindset radio with your Monday morning, 30 minutes, uh, hard drive here where I’ve got with me today, a guy who I feel like it’s become a pretty good friend, uh, who I would also call Sir Elliot Roe on because he’s got a great accent. Uh, listen, Elliot is a power player when it comes to high performing coaching, uh, high performance coaching in the world of hypnotherapy. I’ve done some work with him. We’re going to talk about some of that over the course of these efforts episodes. But Elliot’s worked with poker pros, guys on Wall Street, a UFC fighters, uh, rugby players, Olympian athletes, just all across the board. And really today we’re going to dive in and look at how things like self-sabotage and the crapper and behind the show impedes our performance and a really kind of have this interesting conversation that, uh, that will hopefully unfold.
01:03 Jeff: So I really want you to listen in today on today’s episode. It’s going to be a blast. Elliott, thank you so much for joining me. Hey Jeff, thanks so much for having me. Yeah man. Absolutely. I’m really looking forward to this. So you know, you and I did a little work here earlier this week. It was radically life transformational. We’ll talk about that a little bit later. But you know, first what I want I want to do is a really begin to kind of give a better picture cause I can’t do what I can’t do you justice for what you do. So I really want to kind of paint a picture of what you actually do and why you do it.
01:39 Elliot: Okay. So, in general, I’m, I see myself as a performance coach. My background is him hypnotherapy therapy. And what I look to do is take people who are perhaps top hundred in the world at whatever they’re doing,, and target them. Like what’s holding them back from reaching the top 10 in the world or if the top 10 in the world, what’s holding them back from being number one in the world. , and I do this by helping them understand the self-sabotage is that holding them back, why those programs are running and why they’re not doing the things that they know they should really be doing to reach the top performance. And then I use other techniques to help them bring their top performance on the day when it really matters so they can just get in the flow and perform rather than hold themselves back to you to anxiety, self-sabotage, fear of failure, fear of success, those sorts of things.
Elliot: 02:27 I do that with, like you mentioned, professional athletes, poker players, Wall Street traders, uh, people in the blockchain community, founders of companies. Usually it’s people who are dealing with very high stakes situations, where pressure then becomes a huge component as to whether someone’s a winner or loser. So if you think about someone, like I had someone win the world series of poker main event and you’re at a final table. And the difference between coming first or eighth in at that final table, it’s something, I don’t know, probably 800,000 to $8 million. So there’s a huge amount of pressure on those guys to make sure that they can actually play that best when you don’t normally, they’re probably used to playing for $20,000 and suddenly they’re playing for 8 million. And that can happen. Devastating impact on performance. If you get it to you, if you, you know, set yourself up correctly, then it’s still just a game of poker, something they’ve done hundreds, thousands of hours of. , and it’s that for anything. So whether it’s a UFC title fight, going to the Olympics, a big day on Wall Street, everything is about bringing that top performance and not letting the pressure of the situation overcome you.
Jeff: 03:40 Yeah. And so, see this is interesting because this is really why I wanted to bring you on because you know what I mean? The audience that we’re talking to, cops, firemen, military guys, guys out doing stuff. I mean, clearly things are at risk. Things are at stake. Uh, there’s really no question of performance. It is a yes. Right? It needs to occur. And you know, when I was growing up the firehouse, uh, in my time in the military, really up until perhaps five years ago or so, like, like the idea of self-sabotage was nowhere in this space. Like that’s not the conversation the guys are hanging out in the front puppet firehouse having like, oh, hey, how do you sell sabotage? That’s not happening right now. And it’s like, guys were like, Oh, you know, we’re getting into hippie stuff but it’s really not.
Jeff: 04:26 And so, you know, I want to talk about that really this morning because is it really is the thing that holds us back. Because here’s what I know about these guys in the community. One, they want to perform in the top 1% always, right? They are, they’ve already chosen a life that puts them into a different level and then they want to perform at the top of that community and they want to do their best because they’re driven to serve others. They’re driven to support people and you know, and then they want to be great husbands and wives and parents and you know, sons and daughters and they want to be great kind of in every aspect of their life. But there’s a whole lot of challenges that kind of come in, come in the mix there and then we play with and then we don’t know and then we kind of start to say, well it was this incident or you know, we start to kind of, we interfere with what’s are we take on what’s going on in our work?
Jeff: 05:25 And then we carry that around with us. Like that mean something. And so, this whole idea of self-sabotage that really isn’t discussed. I’ve had doctor Brachman on, uh, had dug on, well we’re talking about self-sabotage from a couple of areas, but I, I have a feeling like this is going to be the conversation that continues to come up. So I, I love that. So talk to me about that. Talk to me about self-sabotage. Talk to me about things, kind of running in the background, things, running the show, things that interfere with my ability to make good decisions, uh, be present in environments, uh, see things as they’re actually occurring. Cause I think those are the, those are the critical judgments. Those are the critical moments that, that these people are facing every day. Uh, and they want to be better at it.
Elliot: 06:11 I mean, so I think there’s this self-sabotage there in different parts of life that you’re describing. , so you know, we’ve got the balance of life like you were talking about. So being a good husband, good wife, good parents, those sorts of things. Often Times that that could potentially run against the job and the work that you’re doing. And you might find that, you know, the self-sabotage might not be in the work performance site here, but you might find someone taking on extra shifts and actually sabotaging their relationship somewhere.
Jeff: 06:42 Interesting. So like high now I’ve done that. Yeah. I like the, the sort of a sorry love. I have to do another shift. I’ve got to do it for the guys. I’m needed. You know, this, I’ve never done that before ever being the hero but not being a hero.
Elliot: 07:02 So your family really. And so that would be the first thing that stands out as you’re mentioning those bits and pieces that there’s probably a family side or health side of self-sabotage that you know, people in the services are going to see. There could also be the sort of the excessive heroes self-sabotage as well, which, you know, the self-sacrifice of these, these types of jobs. I mean, I, I knew a soldier who, , unfortunately lost his life in Afghanistan and when we heard the stories about it, he was the guy who in all instances was, , was asking, you know, if they were break going into a house, he’d be the one who kicked down the door. , that was his choice. That’s what he was, you know, I want to be the guy who does that every time. Unfortunately, one of those times he was killed, but there is a part of me when looking at the sort of like why was the person saying I always want to be the one doing this. Is there some level of self-sabotage, something going on that’s putting them in that situation every single time? Like those sorts of things that the things that are interested for me, and I’m not saying there’s obviously nothing wrong with being a hero from that side, but we want to make sure it’s for the right reasons and there’s nothing to strong pushing. Does that make sense Jeff?
Jeff: 08:18 It makes perfect sense. So yeah, so I’m, I’m bringing, I’m bringing a film of current and on here in a couple episodes and Phil and I’ve been talking about a few things because I, you know, listen, that that drives their drives way home for me. And I think a lot of other people, cause I knew, I think you and I’ve talked about this, I knew it like his very young age in a very visceral way that I was going to die this heroic death. Like I could, I just sensed it in my body that, that that’s what was going to happen. And then, you know, of course first guy through the door are always kind of putting things at risk and pushing the envelope in and
Elliot: 08:57 you know, maybe not the healthiest choice out there, but yeah, there was definitely something kind of reset. That makes perfect sense to me. [inaudible] then you’ve got to think about, okay, what’s the narrative that makes the child believe that they need to die heroic death so we can, a lot of my work goes back to childhood. You know, what’s going on. The is making them feel that, you know, that’s my way. I’m going to be the first person through the door. I’m going to put myself at that risk or whatever it might be. But you know, there’s, there’s often a lot of these programs that are running for one reason or another, oftentimes it’s street difficult childhoods. That child is creating a program that you know, resonates with them, makes them feel that they have more control over their destiny, then perhaps they feel like they have and then they continue running that program.
Elliot: 09:43 And you know, that’s fine. And obviously in the services you need people who are brave and who are doing those things. But there is something around, you know, being honest with yourself and saying, am I doing this because it’s definitely the most optimal thing to do and it’s the right thing to do. Or am I doing this because there’s some other program running pushing me in this seeking danger or seeking adulation or something else from that side, which I think there’s always at least some percentage risk. Well, and I think there’s this fear. Okay, so I think there’s this fair and I, well, I will speak for myself. There’s been this fear that if I’m not doing that, that I’m not doing my job or I’m not doing everything I should be doing or could be doing, uh, that I’m really not pushing the envelope in certain ways and somehow then I’m not being honorable or, uh, I’m being weak or a weak minded.
Elliot: 10:44 Like there’s this whole component to this stuff that I think the community has this idea that, that looking at things like self-sabotage or uh, you know, what’s going on or what’s running the show or, or any of these things somehow is some sign of weakness. And you know, I actually had, this is I was sitting there yesterday after our session and we can talk about kind of what we, what we unfolded in some ways, but I’m going to tell you, I really sat well yesterday or the day before with the full knowledge that if I had been able to get some crap out of my way 1520 years ago, actually how much better I would have been at my job.
Elliot: 11:29 And I, and I think that’s the, it’s the sort of the looking at the very short term results versus the impact that you can have over a longer term. So yes, in a short term scenario, putting yourself in harm’s way might resolve the problem in that short term scenario. You get injured and then you’re out the game for two years. Well is the actual total benefit that you had to society in that same situation? Do you see where I’m coming from? You, you need to be looking at the long-term, the bigger picture, the, the wider impact that you can have on different scenarios. And again, there’s always a time for heroics. , it’s just the fact that if the heroics become your everyday life, then I would say there’s a question mark as to why is that happening? , are you really doing the most good that you can do? Putting yourself in that danger if it means taking you out of the game and then you can’t help people moving forward?
Jeff: 12:24 Yeah. You know, that’s a really interesting point because we’re not talking about not taking the actions necessary in the moment and when the situation dictates when it’s necessary, it’s necessary. Yeah. I mean you gotta, you know, you make your decisions or yourself on a hand grenade, you make yourself [inaudible], you make the decision to take an extraordinary action to get our moment that comes from somewhere else that doesn’t come from, that’s a good response. That doesn’t come from the self-sabotage standpoint. And I think that’s what guys don’t necessarily understand or people don’t fully understand.
Elliot: 13:01 Yeah. And I’m talking more about, hey, you know, selecting yourself for the most dangerous possible situations repeatedly over and over when, you know, potentially it’s, it’s a choice to be choosing to put yourself in that scenario and it sort of stands out versus what colleagues are doing. So it’s really just the extreme, you know, you’ve probably met people over the years who those extremes of happened that you see them continually putting themselves in very difficult situations. , as I say, then I would, I would question why that choice is being made and if there’s something else going on. Some of the reason why they’re doing.
Jeff: 13:40 Yeah. I mean my chief kind of had a running joke that basically said he didn’t get out of bed until he heard me breathing air cause he knew if I wasn’t breathing there really wasn’t a big deal. Uh, you know, back in the fire service. Like he didn’t really, it didn’t worry until he heard, you know, and Jelly heard me actually breathing air because I always resisted because I just had a thing about it like I had, I don’t know, it has something I had to do and yeah, I’ve kind of been that guy that’s maybe push the boundaries a little bit too much. Probably put myself at risk a little bit too much, like all my people at risk, a little bit too much to kind of, you know, perform at this level when we could have totally done exactly what we did. We could have been graded or a job, we could’ve been super effective. We could have completely achieve the same result just without the risk associated.
Elliot: 14:32 Interesting. Again, again, it’s a difficult one to explain and you know, again, obviously I understand the importance of heroics and how significant these things are and I don’t want to undermine anything that he wants done. I would just say take a second. If you, if you’re hearing this and you’re saying, Hey, I’m the one who’s always running in first, every single just sort of the question, okay, why am, why am I deciding to be the one who’s doing that every single time? And oftentimes it goes back to childhood memories will come up around, you know, what could potentially be causing that mindset. And as I say, I would ask yourself, are we doing short term maxim gains but potentially not being able to help the most people the most because of the impact that’s going to happen in the long-term potential.
Jeff: 15:17 Yeah. And, and, and play full out when the, when the situation dictates, I go for it. You know, really when it dictates you got to give it 100% yeah. And go all the way, Paul out full out and you chose a life that you chose a job in a role that your life’s at risk. And you know, if, if that happens, that happens. And you know, there’s a difference between being honorable and being stupid, I think. And if we get right down to it, we call it like it is, uh, yeah. You know? Yeah. There, there really is. And so I think, I think understanding that such a critical role. So, all right, so let’s talk hypnosis real quick, right? Cause who, you know, let’s, let’s talk about this a weird thing that nobody really wants to do and they don’t want them to hypnotize me and all this, you know, there’s clearly like mindset. There’s a bunch of garbage out there about what it is and how it works and what goes on. And really what I want to do is kind of bring some reality to that, you know, just a function of it and what occurs and what happens. And then we’ve talked a little bit about our stuff.
Elliot: 16:25 that we accomplished and yeah. So, so the first thing is, you know, obviously the media portrayal of it stage shows causes a lot of issues, issues with hypnosis, hypnotherapy. So what you see on a stage or what you see on TV isn’t actually what hypnotherapy is. That’s, you know, they’re very clever at what they do. They’re very good at audience selection. It works on about two to 5% of the population. So the bigger the crowd, the better. The
Jeff: 16:52 you’re talking about the extreme stuff that you see, the showy stuff. It’s the stuff on the stage, Steph
Elliot: 16:56 each. Yeah, so what they do is they select the people very carefully. , and then there’s a lot of social pressure so people feel obliged to do things. And this psalm, small amount of hypnosis in it, the work that I do with him, the therapy, hypnotherapy itself as a therapy is much more like guided meditation. So when someone says, I can’t be hypnotized, most people can’t be hypnotized to go on stage and do something stupid deck. They’re completely right. Right. But you can be hypnotized in terms of getting yourself into a meditative state. Because most people could agree that it would be possible for them to meditate if they try it. So the work that I do is like a form of guided meditation. The person reaches this very deep state of relaxation. And in that state you’re accessing the subconscious mind rather than the conscious mind.
Elliot: 17:45 So if we’re having a conversation right now and I say, hey, you know, what does it feel like when you’re in those high pressure situations, when else have you felt that way? It might not be very easy to connect memories to it. In a hypnotized state, these memories just pop up and you’ll see these connections and everything will start to make more sense because if your subconscious is doing something irrational, so if you’re doing something you know isn’t logical, your subconscious knows why it’s doing that, otherwise it wouldn’t be doing it. So if we can tap into the subconscious, it will bring up the memories that will bring up the reference points and then we can release the emotions from those. We can reframe those so that you’re running a more effective program moving forward. And that’s what most of the work is on. Self-sabotage, fear of failure, fear of success, anxiety issues, be is whatever it may be. We’re looking to understand where was that program created and developed, how can we go back and change that program. So it’s a bit like having a computer and then going into the operation system and changing a line of code. And that’s how I view him. Therapy and how it works. Clients.
Jeff: 18:53 Yeah, no, and it’s, and the impacts have been pretty profound. So you and I did a session, so I’ve been struggling, uh, Eh, you know, and it’s very Catholic in my life, but I would say pretty much now I’m going to turn 45 in October. So I’ve pretty much been angry and extremely anxious or highly frustrated on edge, agitated, whatever, whatever description you want to use of me. Uh, pretty much for about 45 years my entire life. And, you know, we talked a little bit before the show where, you know, when we get this way, you know, if you look at symptoms coming out of this world, out of the, out of the high stress environment, right out of the fire service, out of the military, out law enforcement community, you know, that cause moral injury or PTSD that cause all these things, you know, stress, anxiety, frustration, quick tempered, anger, whatever they may be, you know, and, and my wife would have been like, okay, you know, I want you to get some help will happen, this and that.
Jeff: 19:52 I’m like, you know, none of that lived for me. Like that was something and I could never figure it out. And, and then it was a frustrating thing because then it’s like, stop trying to label me. No, that’s not it. Like I had no idea what was going on and I really didn’t fully understand how I was being. So one, I kind of had to accept that our, I, I’m, I’m pretty much on edge most days, you know, a lot of things will cause me anxiety or frustration very quickly. So it Kinda had to go through that journey. And then I reached out to you and said, okay, can we, can we take a look at this thing because I don’t know what’s there. Uh, and uh, so you and I got together, we did a little until session and crazy interesting what we find out, right. And just, you know, fully aware of everything the entire time, just like you said, getting into that relaxed state, that high state of relaxation, uh, you helped me kind of walk me through
Elliot: 20:48 a couple different areas and, you know, we begin to actually uncover things that happened as an infant, as a young boy, uh, and all the way through. And it was, it was, it was pretty crazy the impact that we could see. And, and that’s quite typical, you know, so, so most of that programming that we have is built in, in the first seven years of our life. So the majority of how we shaped the program that we’re going to work moving forward is in that period of life. So if you’re in a high stress environment in that period, often times there’s going to be anxieties or frustrations or Angus that get held onto and then a repeating pattern moving forward. What happens, , later on is as you get older, the things that impact you have to be more traumatic to be able to indent.
Elliot: 21:45 So, so as you get to your teenage years, yes, there’ll be some things that come up, but usually it will happen. So prior to seven, it can be a subtle comment that just becomes something that you hold onto forever as you get into teenage years is probably going to be violence or sexual assault or something like that. And then as you get into adult life, violence can still do it. And that’s what PTSD is, is sure when something traumatic enough happens that it can embed in the same level it would have done in childhood, , as creating any fear or phobia or stress might be. , so the majority of my work is, we are talking about things sub seven years old, so you know, zero to 10 usually. , they don’t have to be these massively traumatic events. In all cases. These memories come up.
Elliot: 22:34 And you know, I’ve had 60 year old men crying over the fact someone stole their apple in kindergarten. Yeah, yeah. It sounds ridiculous, but it’s real. And they had held onto that level of emotion and they didn’t know it was there and after the session, you know, the anger was gone. And yeah, this is someone, you know, these sorts of things come up an awful lot. And it’s because, , yeah, this is, if you imagine sort of as an evolutionary perspective, you know, you see a tiger as a baby, you’re not scared of a tiger because you don’t know to be scared. [inaudible] Martha screams responds, you learn to have a fear, fear of tigers because your mom screamed. So as an evolutionary thing, it’s really useful to be able to pick up fears and anxieties quickly based on the responses of adults that are around you.
Elliot: 23:24 Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I grew up in a very stressed based environment, a lot of anger, a lot of fear. Never knowing what’s going to happen, never knowing if we’re going to get yelled at or are we going to get, you know, I think he’s done about it. Yeah. Yeah. If you think about it, you were basically setting yourself up. The weld is a dangerous place and I have to always be on edge and I always have to be ready because the world is a dangerous place and that then just repeated from the age. Yeah. Yeah. And then I created it, created more of it along the way. Yep. So then you choose to go into a life of service and danger and you’re proving to yourself that you’re right. The world is a dangerous place because you continually putting yourself in places that are dangerous.
Elliot: 24:07 You’re basically fulfilling, fulfilling the, the narrative of your life you created as a child because that’s where you were comfortable because that the world is dangerous and scary. And I have to be, I have to deal with it in a certain way. Okay. The fire brigades attract to, you know, the army’s attractive because that makes sense. Yeah. And I think, uh, you know, a lot of people in the services may find that this resonates with them as well, but there are some things that may have pushed them in this direction because of that chaos and trying to take control of that chaos or something like that.
Jeff: 24:40 Yeah. You said, you said before the show, I want to interfere here real quick because you said before the show and this is what I want to carry into our next session. That’ll come out later this week,
Elliot: 24:49 which is,
Jeff: 24:51 you know, quite possibly there is a whole community of us out there that,
Elliot: 24:55 that aren’t key doing incident from our service. It’s not necessarily a PTSD issue. It’s something that happened a long time ago that really drove us to be in that, that world in the first place. Yeah. And I think, I think that’s something, you know, I’ve seen, I’ve worked with people in the ministry before, police who’ve had these significant PTSD issues and often times they actually ended up going even earlier. They, they, you know, they assed that the issue was the PTSD, the traumatic event, and that definitely had emotion around it. Sure. But they’ve ended up walking about events prior to that much younger in their life. And the resolution of those events seem to have an even bigger impact than the resolution of PTSD. So it’s just a slightly different narrative. , and it’s not the case for everybody, but this certainly there’s been a number of people where I’ve seen they were carrying something before the PTSD happened and that was the key to unlocking the stress and anxiety that they were holding onto. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s, that hits the nail on the head right there. And then I got to, you know, that’s just, I don’t feel like that’s a conversation we’re having in the community. Like that’s a, that’s just life. I mean, that’s, that’s, that is the reality of most situations in most scenarios is there’s kind of something in the background, uh, that
Jeff: 26:23 when we actually deal with it. And this is where I wanted to say, like the last few days I feel, I feel like I’ve left, I feel like I’ve lost an entire person.
Elliot: 26:31 Like I feel I’ve laughed more.
Jeff: 26:34 I have this, you know, driving like I turned the radio on in the car the other day, which I never had done. Like I drive the car radio radio’s off, silence in the car, you know, I’m hyper focused. Uh, don’t add any more stress to me. Turn the radio up, the, you know, been more pleasant with my kids, a bit more pleasant with my wife. My wife had told you this morning, my wife said to say thank you. Uh, and you know, I just, I feel, I dunno, freed up like unrestricted. I could okay. Like, life’s actually okay right now and it’s pretty crazy. Like I’m kind of sitting around going, is this real? Is this gonna? Is this gonna last? Is this going to stay? Is this gonna? You know, it’s, so, it’s a very, uh, interesting feeling, but I got to tell you like, just literally in the course of, you know, a day.
Jeff: 27:26 Wow. Pretty, pretty cool impact. And you know, and I think that’s a gift, right? That’s a gift to the world. And at the end of the day, I, I don’t feel like I lost anything that made me who I am, that that made me be a firemen that made me be, uh, you know, military guy that made me go into the services that made me do it. I did. And make those choices. I don’t feel like I’m less than anything. I don’t feel like I lost any of that. I mean, I could still go run into a burning building if I really need to do, I would still kind of be this, this man of action. ,
Elliot: 28:01 but, but the difference is you’re not going to be on an alert level 10 the rest of the time when there isn’t a building on fire. And I think that’s the difference is the turning down the dial. You can, you can turn it up again when it’s needed, but you don’t want to be on this sort of high alert 24, seven because the world’s a dangerous place and I need to be 100% because reality is you’re just going to damage your own health doing that and put yourself in in difficult scenarios.
Jeff: 28:31 Well, before we wrap up, here’s the question that got me that you asked me when you asked me how I rate myself, one to 10 where I am and anxiety, frustration, anger. When I get up in the morning, like where do I start when I wake up and you know, I’m already at an eight or nine, uh, when Morgan looked at me the other day when I said yes, he had a question. She’s like, what are your 15? Uh, so, but I’m already like, I’m already on the edge. I don’t have the bandwidth. I don’t have the space to go anywhere else. So literally if I’m getting out of bed at an eight or a nine before I even get my coffee and I’m out of 10, right? Something has occurred that I’m already at a 10 I’m already at Max level. And so my space to operate is has been so small in life.
Jeff: 29:17 And then you asked me the question how long it’s been like that. And when I really honestly took a look at that, I think I said you pretty much my whole life. I mean I can’t remember a time that that wasn’t the case, that I didn’t wake up that way. And you know, and so on, you know, in this, in his first episode I want to leave with like that’s, I think we live there a lot. Like we’re, we live in that tight zone. We don’t have, we don’t have this space. And that actually inhibits our performance, inhibits us on our job, at, inhibits us in our decision making. And it sure as hell impacts our family life, you know, and coming home and dealing with our wives or our husbands or children or mothers or fathers or whatever it is. And it completely impacts of everything else.
Jeff: 30:08 So kind of my question out the audience this morning as we wrap up today’s podcast is where are you one to 10, frustration, anxiety, irritation, whatever it may be, whatever you want to call it. Where are you when you wake up in the morning? And how long have you been there? So I want you to think about that now. We’re going to transition. We’re going to get onto the next episode. Tune in Wednesday, uh, for a little bit more of Elliot. We’re going to go to a deep dive conversation, get into some of this stuff, talk about it. I hope you enjoyed today’s show. Uh, remember, visit [inaudible] dot com slash mindset radio, all the show notes, we’ll be up there. All the links for Elliot and his social media. Do me a favor, go follow them and go support him. And, uh, he actually really gives a shit about us and I appreciate that about him. Uh, and so please get in, follow up with that stuff. Thanks for joining us today and we’ll see on Wednesday. Thanks for joining us today. And we’ll see on Wednesday.