Jeff (HOST): 00:00 All right. Welcome back to mindset radio. I’m your host, Jeff Bandman with me today, a very special guest. We were waiting for a few months to get this podcast scheduled now. Philip McKernan. Bill, thank you for joining me today. I am so thankful you’re with us.
Philip McKernan: 00:17 Yeah, I mean actually likewise, it’s it’s such a wonderful thing to be invited on. I appreciate you asking me.
Jeff (HOST): 00:22 Yeah, I mean, and you know, there’s listen one we kinda been running in the same circles for a little bit. We haven’t had a whole lot of time to actually get to know each other. And then I reached out to you a couple months ago just in a little bit of my own interim struggle space on some things. We had a great kind of message conversation back and forth. And I really think that the conversation that we had is so relevant across my entire audience around now identity. We were just talking about it kinda in the, in the pre show mix. And so today what I want to really dive into is understanding how identity gets created for us. I mean, I’ll, you know, and like you, you just nailed it on the head. We get created as quote unquote the hero.
Jeff (HOST): 01:12 We never wanted it. I have such a problem when people say thank you for your service. A like viscerally bothers me. You know, I won’t stand up at the games when they say, you know, all our veterans or military members in fire, you know, stand up please. It’s like, no, please no. And you know, relevant, especially in the fire service law enforcement community, some of the major issues we’re dealing with, suicide rates are up. We just had another one here recently. There’s been a stream of a Mustak of them and I just want to have a straight conversation. That’s what I love about you. Cause I feel like we can just have a real straight authentic conversation. It’s not wrapped up in a lotta lot of stuff. And you’ve been able to work with sports teams and entrepreneurs and business leaders and just a vast array you know, to, to really get some clarity around some stuff. So that’s where I’d like to point the conversation today. If that’s all right with you?
Philip McKernan: 02:07 Absolutely. Well, on a very basic level, I don’t think many heroes ask, ask for help. I just don’t think it’s set up in society for that and you know, heroes, you know, have to be, you know, too busy saving everybody else’s life and often the person that suffers the most is themselves and then obviously everything and every one, every one that’s on the peripheral of their individual lives.
Jeff (HOST): 02:29 Yeah. I mean it’s almost like the, the contextual issue with the idea of your a hero, therefore you must be able to handle everything and operate a different level and deal with everything. It must be easy for you to be able to go do all this stuff and then come home and hug your wife or your husband and kiss your kids and like be normal. You know what I mean? Like of course, that’s, isn’t that how you’re supposed to be? I think that’s, I think there’s that contextual misconception out there in some ways,
Philip McKernan: 03:00 Ah,
Jeff (HOST): 03:01 That, you know, we deal with. It’s, it’s, it’s very interesting. And then the other flip side to it, like on the military side, we just had this conversation yesterday on a podcast where it’s like almost like the shameful, wow, I’m really sorry you had to deal with that. I’m really sorry you had to go do that stuff. That must have been hard and and so it’s like this, this pendulum swing for us when I don’t think either of those ring true.
Philip McKernan: 03:28 [Inaudible]
Jeff (HOST): 03:29 Does that make sense? At least for me, I mean, and you know, speaking for a lot of the guys I know with a lot of the people in the audience, I feel like society puts sits at like two bookends and that we’re somewhere in the middle. Like we can’t like going to Laura, we can’t like doing these things, but yet we do. And so it’s, I think it rips at our, our own sense of identity in a lot of ways.
Philip McKernan: 03:52 Yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a fascinating subject. I just think we have this very, very deep and aged desire to put people on pedestals and in whatever capacity it is, whether it’s in the military, whether it’s firefighters, you know, whether it’s you know, famous people like, you know, singers and rock stars. And we became, we started to kind of almost run out of people in certainly Europe when I used to live there. I live in the United States now and we, we rushed into kitchens and took, you know, chefs out of kitchens and, and made them celebrities. And you know the story I often often tell is there’s a guy called Amun who lived in, in Dublin and he was a very, very good chef. And my, my understanding is he really enjoyed it. Before you know what he’s been, you know, kind of put in papers and newspapers and TV and suddenly he begins to believe he’s something that he’s not.
Philip McKernan: 04:43 And he starts to move away from the very thing that he set out to do, which was simply cook food and create a place for people to come and enjoy food and connect. And then he became a real estate mogul. And then of course, the big crash in art of the economic crash. He lost all his properties back to the same restaurant, back as general manager, back as, as the front of house person. And then finally back into the kitchen where he started. And I just wonder what part of that journey as exciting and maybe as monetary rewarding for him in some respects was actually the, where did he let, where did he lose himself and all of that. Where did he let go of his identity and the essence of who he was and where he was going to be to follow the dreams and aspirations of society.
Philip McKernan: 05:24 And I think that I see that in so many walks of life and while obviously a lot of the conversation for you is, is in, you know, the military and [inaudible] and you know, the firefighter, you know, community, et cetera. I think the identity issue stretches in, into every facet of life of a mother. I’m father as well, but particularly mothers who bring up there are three children. And when their child finally leaves the nest and the last child walks down the driveway and gets into the Huber, it heads off to college or heads off to university and they close the door and they look in the, in the mirror and they just go, who, who you now you’ve dedicated 20, 30, whatever years of your life to bringing up these hopefully beautiful children that obviously in many cases and in most cases you’re proud of. But then wash ’em and then you turn around and if, if your husband is still in the house, you look at him and you go, I recognize your face, but who are you? And who are we together? And I feel that this is a byproduct of us not stopping early enough in our journey and asking the questions that perhaps we don’t know either how to ask or even want to ask. So we prevent this thing down the line.
Jeff (HOST): 06:28 Yeah. So like what is, you know, cause it’s interesting, we’ve talked about this before, like transitions and coming home and this identity of firemen, Navy seal, airborne ranger, police officer, you know, SWAT officer. We, we, we do embrace our life. Like to a, you know, a 24 hour a day identity as to like what we do is what we are. That kind of equals it in a lot of our brains. But then when we come home, I gave a talk back at Naval special warfare years ago and I’m like, your kid doesn’t need a Navy seal. He needs a dad. And what does that look like and how do you, how do you be dad and not Navy seal? How do you be dad and not firefighter Heidi? Be mom and not police officer? You know what I mean? And that’s, and I, I think I, for my own space I have felt, I’ve felt like I’ve been failing in one or more areas of my life pretty much the majority of my life. Yeah. Well, Jeff,
Philip McKernan: 07:30 That’s a that, well, first of all, thank you for the admission and I think that’s a, a, a, an a be a beautiful chair. And what I mean by that is it’s very rare for me to get on a podcast and I have a host willing to, to show their own insecurities, their own vulnerabilities, their own challenges. And I, I’ve, I called it the 50 50 mother or the 50 50 father. And that is if they like, they’re a 50% entrepreneur and 50% father and 50% perhaps husband, even though I know the numbers don’t add up in that context. But sure. You know, I, I will always remember the first time I came across this little idea and that was, I was watching a soccer game, got chatting to this, you know, mom, I’d seen, you know, every week and we got chatting and it turns out she was a lawyer and she was very successful.
Philip McKernan: 08:10 And you know, that was a huge part of her identity and she didn’t want to give that up because in the world today, Jeff and you and I probably both see this, is that it’s not enough to bring, you know, it’s not enough to be just a mother anymore. You have to be something more than that because it’s not, it’s not enough to have one business in the world. Now you have to have four. It’s not enough to have to be a firefighter. You have to have some online eCommerce business on the side as well. And there’s just always this pressure to constantly achieve, achieve more. And she finally had a moment, she said, you know what? Honestly, I don’t think I do parenting well and I don’t think I do my business well. And I think she, she was afraid to, you know, to, to, to jump all into being a parent cause she didn’t think she was capable of doing it because she had her own insecurities, her own childhood traumas, her own stuff.
Philip McKernan: 08:52 And the essence I had, as I says, it sounds like you’re yourself as a 50 50 mother. Like you’re 50% successful here in 50% but it doesn’t equal 100% there’s an adequacy and gaps on both sides. She goes, you just nailed it. She’s, that’s how I feel every single day. And the compounding cost of that is enormous. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow. But if you’re one degree off and compound that over a period of five or 10 years, that equals a midlife crisis that equals depression. That equals you, you hitting a wall at some level. And I just think we need to bring the conversation further back. In fact, if you, you know, and again, if this is not where you want to go, I go, but I don’t want to bring back to even the choice of going into the military.
Philip McKernan: 09:34 The choice of going to be a firefighter, the choice of being a mother, the choice of being an entrepreneur. What, what’s the origin of that? So I have found, and this is I’ve, I don’t think I’ve ever shared this publicly because I was fascinated as I started doing some work with the military and speaking in different military bases and meeting these incredibly brave men and women. Not because they, they go into combat, but because they’re just who they are. Bravery to me is not about are you willing to stand up and, and, and put yourself in the line of fire. To some extent, bravery is about challenging the status quo. It’s about finding out who you are and standing for who you are in the world today. That to me is courage. It’s just a different type of courage perhaps for some. And what I, what I found was that many of them are deeply struggling with the idea of an echo of the access of like, how do I assimilate back into society?
Philip McKernan: 10:22 How do I drop my uniformed walk back and become a, you know, a barista and become a farmer or become a Baker or become an entrepreneur or whatever that whatever the story is. Yeah. And what was fascinating is I went beyond all of that because somebody asked me, literally yesterday said, how do I not push my team so much? How do I soften around the edges and become a more rounded, authentic leader? And what’s the steps? And I said, it’s the wrong question. It’s the wrong question. I get it, but it’s the wrong question. I want to know why you feel you’re in an inauthentic leader and why you push your team when that’s not your style and that’s not your personality. And I said, that’s what we need to do. We need to track back to where do you find or where did you believe or begin to believe that this was the methodology in which you needed to treat your people in order to get results and tend to find out five years later that actually you’re a bit of an asshole and they know it and they’re responding or not responding accordingly.
Philip McKernan: 11:18 We need to understand that. So when I started to interview a lot of these men and women, I found out that their rep, their reasoning for going into the military was the F was where where the wheels come off from me. If you take away anger after say nine 11 for example, is a great example. If you take away anger, you take away following in your parents’ footsteps, which is often about really emulating your father or your mother, trying to seek approval from them. There’s nothing wrong with A’s. I’m just pointing at some. If you take away what I do, I didn’t know what else to do. I had no other, I had no other ideas and I didn’t know. Honestly, going into the military just felt like you know, it was something good and it would be beneficial or whatever and you take away.
Philip McKernan: 11:59 The final one was, well, you know what? Honestly, if I can be truthful and I heard many women and men say this, that you know, honestly, I wanted the benefits. I wanted to leave that the security for my family and I wanted the educational benefits and the health benefits. You take away those four and maybe there’s others, how many actually joined because they truly, truly, truly wanted to join for them. I don’t know what that stat is and I’m not judging the one star mine for other reasons. I’m just saying when you go back to the origin of why we begin a journey that tells us so much about the way in which we’re going to be in relationship to the journey, regardless of the promotions and the setbacks and the horrors and the joys. If you start a journey that you were never meant to be on in the first place, it’s just always going to be energetically challenging.
Jeff (HOST): 12:46 Yeah. Yeah. I mean that’s, you know, I, I had a Elliot row on a while ago. We were talking about some of this stuff we were talking about, you know, childhood age trauma and stress and I, you know, I gotta tell you, I did some work with Elliot on, you know, anxiety that then, you know, presents his anger and we talked about a heavily on that, but that podcast, you know, it’s interesting that you brought some of that stuff up cause I actually felt like after my session with Elliot when I was able to kind of release everything and, and thank you know, the part of me that has kept me alive for 30 years doing crazy shit around the world and say I don’t really need you anymore. I felt in that incident I kind of looked around, I was like, I would be a great frigging operator right now.
Jeff (HOST): 13:31 Like free of all these, like I thought I needed to carry this anger and anxiety and like I had to had to put myself in this higher state of being kind of this more wound individual in order to be effective in what I was doing. And then when I was actually able to release it, I found it’s like, and bringing some calmness to the table and not having that, I’d be free to engage and operate it just a whole different level. It’s, it’s a very interesting dynamic and somebody just said, we’re gonna, I was going to talk in Nashville’s and one of the fireman just said, he goes, yeah. He goes, we’re great at eating our own. And, and really that goes across the fire service, military, law enforcement community, any of these worlds. We are phenomenal at eating our own up. You know what I mean? If you expose yourself, if you become vulnerable, if you say, Hey guys, you know, I’m not on my game today. It’s like, it’s, it’s not a great environment to really free yourself up a little bit. You know, like I buy page 40 45 of your book. I was in tears, right? If I was sitting in the fire, I’ll do it. Ad guys would be like, what are you doing?
Philip McKernan: 14:40 Well that’s fascinating because I worked with two Olympic athletes a number of years ago and I could just feel this unspoken energy. And I just turned around to them and I said, after the Olympic games, what’s next? And they said, we don’t talk about that. And I said, well, I said, well, tough shit because we’re talking about it now guys. And one of them said, well, we don’t see the point in talking about it. I said, yeah, I hear your point, but my question still stands, what are you going to do after the Olympic games? And then one of them looked at me and with just this overwhelming fear and he says, I can’t think about it. I can’t go there because I just vibrate with anger and frustration and fear because I have no idea who I’m going to be without the sport that I play.
Philip McKernan: 15:25 And I said, okay, so let’s, let’s just imagine something for a moment. Are you sitting here saying that there, therefore this energy that you’re holding onto it does not affect your ability to let go and be loose and to be free and to actually perform better? Are, you know, is it a case where this energy is not being honored? These questions are not being talked about because there’s a fear that it would take your eye off the ball and I believe the middle tree have a moral obligation. I believe every organization has a moral obligation to have these conversations in advance because I think if they’re done in a very constructive way, not a controlled way, but a very constructive way, I think what we can do is prepare people for when they begin to assimilate back into society, whatever, whatever the hell that actually really means.
Philip McKernan: 16:09 And these two men, I can absolutely tell you for a fact that I can’t tell you on a spreadsheet what percentage of performance was being left. You know, you know, off the ice. But when we have the conversation and then we dropped it, they felt free or on another story I want to share just very recently that I came across was a professional goalkeeper pulled me aside and I was at a preseason training camp with the team and I was positioned as a guy who, you know, while I don’t have any formal you know, qualifications like sports psychology or psychology or psychiatry, psychiatry, I knew that you know, but I won’t get into the details of my own story. I’ve traveled the world, I’ve been to 85 countries, I work with thousands of people around the world from all walks of life. And I was positioned as a guy that listened to, if you have any kind of concerns, any things that you feel that are getting in the way of your performance, you know, this guy McKernan is here and he’s just going to spend three or four days with us.
Philip McKernan: 17:03 And initially there were all kind of keeping their head down, know, try not to get eye contact, nothing sitting next to me over lunch in case everyone thought that they had an issue. And finally the biggest guy in the pitch basically tipped me on the shoulder, the goalkeeper and said can we just go for a walk? And I, we walked down the beach and he said I just got this overwhelming fear of making a mistake and the opening game of the season. And I said, okay, cool. So is it just the opening game? He said, 100%. And I said, well, what if it’s not? And he goes, well, now that I think about it, it’s probably a little bit more prevalent in every game I play. And I said, well, where does it come from? And he gave me one of those looks and he said, well, that’s why you and I are talking.
Philip McKernan: 17:40 That’s why you’re here, I assume. And that’s why I tipped you on the shoulder. My starting point is everybody that’s seeking clarity has the answer. It’s not, it’s not. I don’t, I’m not there to it, to them, I’m there to, I’m covered from within them. So it empowers them on a much deeper level. And he says, I really don’t know. And I said, okay, let’s play paint a picture. It’s the opening game of the season. The ball is curling in from the left wing. You jump up to carry the ball. This is obviously soccer. I’m talking about, you know, you’ve missed times your jumping, it’s also a windy day and you’ve made a mistake and you’re in the middle of the air and you know you’re not going to catch this ball. You get the tips of your fingers to the ball, the ball goes over your head and by the time your body slams onto the dirt, you hear the opposition jumping into the stadiums, jumping up and down screaming, cause the ball has gone in and you screwed up.
Philip McKernan: 18:23 He goes, okay, I’m with you. And as you take your face out of the dirt and you look up into the stands, who’s the only face on earth that you do not want to see? And he goes, Oh shit. He said, my dad, yeah. This is a 25 year old man. This is a man who’s played soccer most of his life. This is a is 25 years in this earth and he had no idea that most of the why he exists on this earth is because he’s still trying to prove to his dad and seek validation from his father. What it led to was a conversation that he needed to have with his father, and I’m exaggerating grossly to make a point. The next time I met him, he wasn’t even sure whether he was going to be the first pick on the team. He became the first pick in the team. He was captain for this game. I want to met him. He looked like he could jump two foot higher into the air.
Jeff (HOST): 19:11 Yeah.
Philip McKernan: 19:12 And he looked me and he said, that conversation changed everything. Now that’s not me attempting to take ownership. It’s, it’s trying to make a point. Yes. He couldn’t jump to front two more feet in theater, of course, maybe two or three inches. But he looked like he could, he had this sense of confidence. He started to get in touch with the origin of what was driving this fear and he began to address some of it and accept the rest.
Jeff (HOST): 19:34 Phil, so you were, you know, we were in the talking about the goalkeeper talking about him in the next time we saw him. He just, he looked like you could jump, you know, two feet higher. And the discovery around really that had 25, the underlying issue was trying to be worthy, you know, for his dad or trying to be, you know, find it, find his relationship with his father if I said that correctly.
Philip McKernan: 20:02 Yeah. And there’s nothing, again, I think sometimes when you share these stories, people say, well, what’s, what’s wrong with that? There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just like, it’s just a driving force that he was unaware of. You know, he, he, he thought he was playing soccer and, and, and pursuing his career for himself when in actual fact a lot of his drive was actually doing it for somebody else. The challenge when that happens is you tend to climb the wrong mountain. You tend to pursue something that you think your parents want, you think society wants for you, you think the people around one for you. And when you’re not clear about your real why, the thing that really, truly motivates you at your core, it can lead you to make decisions that don’t ultimately serve you. I mean, there’s a lot of science around, you know, I have this in the front of my website that 90% of people die with regret.
Philip McKernan: 20:42 I actually think it’s an accurate, I think it’s 95% of people die with regret. And I think 90% of the people live everyday with regret. The study said, did not ever say 90% of stupid people die with regret. It’s 90% of people. So there’s this idea that sometimes, Oh, what if I’m smart enough, I’m clever enough and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve got, have enough letters after my name and I read enough books. I’m not going to make those mistakes. It does not. It makes no distinction between your level of academic understanding of the world versus versus not. We don’t wake up as human beings unless we’re in a very dark place and we’re trying to sabotage our own lives ever. I believe saying, Hey, I’m going to make a decision today that’s going to compound over a period of time that’s going to lead me to regret some decisions in my, in my life, but that’s what we do on my work and I believe the invitation outside of me just generally as a human being is to stop and ask yourself the questions just as we move through this earth, is this really where I want to live?
Philip McKernan: 21:40 Is this really the career I want to pursue? Is this? We just ask these simple inviting questions without judgment and you know, if you spent five years in the middle tree and you’ve [inaudible], you know, you’re out of it as and you’ve retired out of it. It’s not about looking back with regrets and beating ourselves up and say, Hey, I wasted five years. It’s just saying, Hey, maybe those five years, maybe you, you overstayed, maybe it wasn’t your journey, but how do we use that time effectively to now make the next bell, the next mountain bill, the next guy? Cause I think I made sure that
Jeff (HOST): 22:08 It would have been very easy for me to stay in or stay in the military. I mean they were hammer on me. I had great ready enlistment options. But even at that point my life, there was a, an uncomfortableness with the idea of staying at, like there was just a, there was something for me pulling me kind of to the next thing for me. And so, you know, people ask me all the time, do you regret getting out? No, I don’t regret getting out. Cause then that led me to work for the agency. And so I got to spend, you know, a decade with CIA and got to do phenomenal things where I actually felt like my personal contribution and value aligned with what I was doing for work as well. So, you know, I, I do, but I know guys that have spent 2025 years and they’re just, you know, chugging it out cause I’m going to get to retirement or I’m going to do this. I don’t want to do that. And you know, those things do break down over time. It, it’s, it’s a pretty prevalent issue. They know in the fear of, well, what would be next? Like you said, around the OMB, it’s okay, great. What’s next? I don’t even want to have that conversation of what’s next.
Philip McKernan: 23:24 Yeah. Yeah. I think that scares a lot of people. And I would, I would respectfully say, and this drives people nuts and people get angry when I say this often, is that you probably you, yeah, exactly. You, you, you, I think if you’re not stirring something inside of somebody, I think, you know, we’re not asking the right questions. I think at the end of the day, I think, and I, and I absolutely believe this, my core Jeff [inaudible] and it, you know, I’m almost going to put out of a job here in a way. What great is that? The clarity we seek. We already have an I hear way too many people telling me that, you know what? Well, I would leave my job if I knew what was next. I would leave living in the city. I don’t wanna live in if I knew what was, if I where I wanted to live, et cetera.
Philip McKernan: 24:03 And I find that it’s a great way of not having to change. It’s a great way to unnecessarily have to face the thing that scares us the most. And that most of that is living the greatest expression of who we are. Because it’s always easier in the end of the day to fail doing something that we never really wanted to do for ourselves. And what’s, what’s, what’s really intriguing me open, accelerating, you know, exciting me over the last eight, six or eight months, is this notion of, let’s just use a book analogy that, you know, I think we all have an idea of a book that we think might sell like the world might want. And then I do believe that we have a book in our back pocket that actually, you know what? Honestly, we’re scared to write the book that actually we think that would be ridiculed.
Philip McKernan: 24:45 And what I find is this, is that the book in your back pocket, the idea in your back pocket will change the world for you and will actually make humanity better. We, we call it one last startup. If you had to create one last business and one last business only, is the app that you want to build to sell to Google for like $10 million or $1 billion, is that the business you would build or is it the ID in your back pocket that you’re afraid to bring out? I find that sometimes it’s not what we’re doing today, Jeff. It’s not even what we’re thinking to do and tomorrow it’s what lies beyond both of those as the greatest authentic expression of who we are. But we’re afraid to name it because it means that we have to put ourselves on the line.
Jeff (HOST): 25:30 Oh, just a little bit tears right now because Phil, what you don’t know is after a empty last year it was a massive catalyst for me. And a lot of ways cause I was, I believe I was violating kind of what I was put on this earth to do and be you know, I was going down this other trajectory and has some great counsel and that’s why, you know, this year, the, the podcast, the foundation, right, that that is focusing on early training, early conversations and getting support out. At the earliest point I had to really step back into a community that’s full of judgment. That’s scary. And I’d be willing to hang myself out there and and like this podcast and the programming, this conversation is going to work unless somebody is going to step into it and go listen for 30 years of my life, you know, the thought of suicide is wrong around the back of my head.
Jeff (HOST): 26:23 You know, there’s been three moments where I’ve actually been actively, you know, in that space. And in that time you know, I, we just packed up and moved from San Diego to Denver and I’ve had to restructure, you know, the time with my girls cause they’re going to stay in, in San Diego. But I had to really look at that and go, if I don’t do, I’m, I’m going to be in that, that full state of regret, you know, because I’m not having a relationship with my children that I want, cause I’m so inundated by having to figure out how to live day in and day out out there. Yeah. I mean, I, this has been a journey for me this year of like putting, stepping out into things that I think we don’t do. And especially in these communities. You know, I, I, when I started my talk two weeks ago in Nashville, I lay it out whenever I talked to cops, fireman, I say, I say, listen, I need, there’s one rule here and you’re going to have to set your judgment down to be in this room from the next hour, two hours, three hours, whatever it is.
Jeff (HOST): 27:28 And if you can’t do that, then you just mind to SWAT leave. But our communities are so deeply rooted in judgment that it creates us fear of communication or honesty, or we’re really laying yourself out there. So I don’t mean to jump into a tangent there, you just, you just hit a chord with me.
Philip McKernan: 27:52 Yeah, I, I’m, I’m really on a mission in the world today is to, is to find out, you know, what is, what is it part of your personal narrative, your personal truth that the world is not saying you’re not allowing the work to say what part of you is depriving the world. And I, and I do believe to my core, what I’m about to say, Ron, so true, is that our greatest gifts lie right next to our deepest wounds. And that if you know, the old world, the old way of looking at the world and particularly in business is you go and find a problem and then you create a service or a product that’s going to solve it. And then you sell that to the world. And hopefully you do make, you know, make good money doing it. I think that’s, that’s one way of making money in one way of existing.
Philip McKernan: 28:28 The people that I want to work with are the people who go, Hey, I want to, I want to find a pain point that I my South experience and live through and didn’t have the support around me to, to help me with it. I want to identify that what, what that is and I want to go and help humanity solve that. Whether it’s one or a million people, I don’t really care. As long as you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re looking at life through the lens of contribution in a way that is a reflection of the pain new year, South experience. What happens is you bring, you know, your talent and then you layer it over with your gift and I think that’s an unstoppable force and that’s the difference between passion and excitement. Often we start businesses or we head into careers and we’re excited. Excitement always runs out, always runs out, but passion never does. And I think if you can align who you are to what you’re doing, I think then that is a really powerful point, poignant and potent force that I think really amplify how many worlds I was. The world’s amplified salaries.
Jeff (HOST): 29:25 Being a firefighter, being a police officer, being a service Bureau across any of the brand is right. Just to be like, Hey, I’m here because this is, this is like who I am to Mike or, and I have the opportunity when I put on a uniform or step into my service each day, you know, to really care for my community or my country to protect the people around me. You know? And I can do that without like, then the hero is of it, right? The, the extra of it. And I think when I can operate that state, then that also lets me come home and almost carry that same level of personal commitment into my family or into my friends and into my community, away from the job. And that helps me maintain this identity of who I am committed at a core point and it, and if I’m a, if I’m a fireman today or a cop tomorrow or a service member of next week, that is just a role I’m playing for a period in time. But, but this piece of identity I think is, you know, where the links break down.
Philip McKernan: 30:33 Yeah. There’s two, there’s two things on that. Cheva thing is, one is how do we bring that home? And I, and you and I talked about that before we went on air. How do we bring ourselves home? And that was kind of, it wasn’t, we didn’t get into the details of it. One of the challenges is that we have this idea of work life balance out in the world. And I, and I, and I have a bit a bit of an issue with it because I think it almost implies then when you pull up in the driveway that you, you change your state and walk into your house. I’m not asking you to bring back the gory details of perhaps an accident that you came across that day or you know, some sort of engagement that you know, ended up in violence. I’m not asking you to come back and download that and your kids, your family, etc.
Philip McKernan: 31:08 But not to adjust who you are in the car, in the driveway, massively to become suddenly dad or mom two minutes later and then jump back in the car the following day and also lay back into this, this role. You know who I am is who I am. I show up. There’s no work life balance in my life. If I, if I got my, my, my fist in my right hand and my hat, my left hand is open and I put my fist into my hand and I close it over. There’s just Philip McKernan, those just one me, that’s all good. Batter are different. I don’t, I’m not the coach on a Monday morning and dad on a Saturday night. There’s just this morning and I used to be in careers my entire life where I thought I needed to separate the two, which was exhausting. It was actually exhausting. And, and the way I look at it is that, you know, if you can commit wholeheartedly to who, who you are and what you do without being over attached, cause that’s really what I’m talking about here. It’s or attachment is the problem.
Jeff (HOST): 32:01 It’s like somebody said to me one day,
Philip McKernan: 32:03 I want to write a book and I want some advice because I’ve just been approached by one of the biggest authors in this industry to coauthor with them. This is like the opportunity of a lifetime. Mckernan and what do you think the reason we’re asking me, and not even seeking permission but asking it because they knew deep down there was a question Mark and I said, you trust this person. I know. Sorry. The first question I asked was how bad did you want to write a book? And they said 12 out of 10 and I said, well you want it, you wanted to badly. And she goes, what are you talking about? She says, does not, does that not show commitment? I said, no, that shows attachment that shows an over need for you to be a writer. So what’ll happen is you will end up making decisions to write a book with somebody that you don’t trust in order to get your name on a book in order to achieve your goal.
Philip McKernan: 32:45 And ultimately it’ll end up, you’ll end up regretting that. And she just goes, Oh shit, screw you. She’ll be like annoyed with me. But she knew that this person was not the right alignment. She let go of the opportunity six months later, woke up, wrote her book in six weeks, and I became number one in Amazon in the entire portfolio of Amazon, not just one little sub-niche within Amazon. And not that there’s anything wrong with that. So the point is that we often get very attached to becoming a hero. We get attached to, to, to certain roles. And I think it’s wonderful to commit to something, be the goalkeeper for the next five years and commit to that. But don’t over identify with it because you could be a painter in five years. You could be a musician, you could be a farmer, you could be an entrepreneur, you could be something else. Just don’t get too attached. It’s like I often see in the world of intimate relationships is people get attached to this idea that if they’re single they’re not going to be happy and therefore they have to have somebody by their side in order to journey and navigate this world. When you have such an attachment and I promise you you will ignore the red flags on the peripheral, you will marry somebody that you think is the right person to ultimately find out that you did it for the wrong reasons.
Jeff (HOST): 33:56 Yeah. It really, it’s the same presence that is, that’s a very, that’s a pretty significant point. This difference between, cause we talk a lot about commitment in, in this community, right? Because it’s a, it is a big commitment when I take on the, yes, the role where you know, I have the responsibility to protect the people around me and, and be available to that at any moment in time. That’s a, that is a big commitment, but I, I really can see where then the attachment to, and I could see it in my own life. A lot of places. I’m laughing at myself a little bit where, you know, the attachment comes into play, but then the attachment in association with everything else really starts to break things down because I am, if I am attached to being a firefighter, then a firefighter looks like this and I have to be like this and I have to do this and this and this and you know, and then it becomes this whole compounding world then to go back to, and I’ve talked to a lot of people out of the services and, and I, the conversation, the internal conversation of I’m a failure or I’m not good enough or I’m not worthy or I, you know, I’m always letting someone down.
Jeff (HOST): 35:08 I’m either not ready to go to the firehouse or I’m letting my spouse down or I’m letting my kids like that is such a deep seated conversation across the services. And it’s, and part of the fun I get to have now, and I call it fun because it’s, I get to bring that conversation to the group where those have always been individual conversations, right? Those are conversations people are, will only talk about with me in a one-on-one context. And you know, now it’s time, have that conversation as a squad, as a team, as a group, you know, as an organization. Because those are, you know, I’ve, I’ve been in it and I’ve looked at people looking left and right, like, go on. Am I the only one? And I really, I’m not. Yeah,
Philip McKernan: 35:56 I there, there’s a, there was a great study that was done a number of years ago. It’s a massive body of work and, and excited. It’s either that people are looking for three things and the organization in which they’re attached to the company they work for you know, the, the, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, segment of, of, of, of the work, you know, the working force you’re in. And it was that people are yearning three, three things to be competent at what they do, to feel like they’re good at what they do, to feel authentic in their own lives and to feel connected to themselves and other people. And, and I just thought that was fascinating. It didn’t say, Hey, they want, you know, they want health benefits. They want, I think there’s a point where we need a certain amount of kind of security or income.
Philip McKernan: 36:37 We need to know that our families are going to be safe, et cetera, et cetera. Beyond that, I think ultimately what we’re yearning different things and what we have found over the last number of years is we’ve created a concept called team deepening where because we think team building is, is a little bit old fashioned. We’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re looking for ways to deeply connect. Cause you think about connection, you think about a firefighter, you think about somebody in the military, you know, in, in many cases, and correct me if I’m wrong, Jeff, that it’s not just something you go and do for three, four, five, six, seven, eight hours a day. This is often people’s entire you know, working space and their personal socialize are also tied in around the peripheral of this. So often people’s, you know, we used to live in a certain, in Europe and it used to be just as you know, there’s these, these countries made up these little villages and those communities and everything else.
Philip McKernan: 37:23 But today the world has shifted. In many cases, people are going to work, they come back, they watch a movie or something on Netflix, have dinner, fall into bed, and go back out and share another eight hours or 10 hours that day with a community of people I know, yearning to connect with these people. But they just don’t know how. And what we’re finding is is by providing an opportunity for people to, to be vulnerable in a very safe environment through one last talk, which is a book I wrote, is actually when people are sharing the deepest part of their personal narrative and truth, whether they feel as feel suicidal, they feel depressed, they, they, this is part of their story that they’re ashamed of or whatever is that unifies people at a very deep human level. And I do find that there’s almost a fear of bringing that into the military or a fear of bringing that into.
Philip McKernan: 38:10 And I’ve talked to firefighters, I’ve talked to military personnel. We’ve actually delivered this into a prison of all places and got permission to record all the talks, et cetera. And it was out. It was just unlike anything I’ve experienced in my life. But there’s almost this hesitation that if we bring a vulnerable conversation, which is ultimately a human conversation into a group of heroes, that they will soften around the edges and they’re therefore not be as effective as they could be. But it think if we don’t do it, we’re starving them. Of humanity. We’re starving of them, of this, this, this opportunity to connect with themselves and other people and therefore allow themselves to identify more with the roles they take on and go out into the world and, and to protect other people and protect themselves. And am I making any sense?
Jeff (HOST): 38:56 It failure or you’re spot on with that? I mean, it is, it is crazy that we don’t have the conversations like this in these community because it is perceived, it’s perceived as weakness, as potential vulnerabilities. As you know, there is a context. It’s crafted that you must be this way, you know, hard this, that in order to execute a mission or to go out and shoot somebody in the face, right? I mean, that’s just, that’s a reality of our world. And, and what I have found the polar opposite is actually true. You know what I mean? There’s there, yeah, it is. It is. It is completely different. There is not a, you know, we, it’s like I need you to beat. There’s the perception that you have to be not a human being. In order to be effective in certain roles, you have to shut down all your humanity, all your feelings, you know, which you can’t do.
Jeff (HOST): 39:56 So, you know, you’re trying to shut them down and then they’re creating resistance. It’s why it’s a lot of times why, you know, and also will fail to press the trigger when they should. Right. There’s too much conflict of that occurs. And to me, having these conversations, doing these things, exposing myself, like talking about really what’s going on in my brain actually frees me up in a way that I can make the decision I need to make in that moment in time, in the context that it needs to be made. Because there’s nothing wrong with engaging the enemy. There’s nothing wrong with doing what it is I need to do in the role that I’ve taken on. But yeah, there’s conflict constantly because I’m not freed up enough to say, Hey, I’m, you know, I’m struggling here with some things.
Philip McKernan: 40:43 Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the, it’s the way. I mean, if you think about it, let’s use a, an obnoxious example. Let’s just say you’re working in a, in a fire station, you’re working on a military base, you’re working in an office and you’ve got an asshole in the office. And what I mean by that is you just got somebody that no one really likes and he always pushes your buttons and, or she always pushes your buttons and they’re just really obnoxious and they’re cold and they just seem to be out to get you and piss you off. And whatever it happens to be is that [inaudible], there’s been lots of assholes in my life and I’m sure I’ve been an asshole to many people in my life. But what I’ve realized over the last number of years, and I’ve known this intellectually, but now emotionally really understanding, is when you understand their story, you realize why they are the way they are. They weren’t born an asshole. They become a very defensive person because they’re hurt.
Philip McKernan: 41:28 They, they, they want to push you away because they don’t feel deserving of your friendship. They want push you away cause they know how to connect. They want to push you away because they’ve been hurt by so many human beings before. They can’t allow you to get close to them. And by bringing a vulnerable conversation into an environment that allows you to go beyond the assholeness of somebody and see them for a human being. And I’m literally not exaggerating, Jeff, and I say that we have brought teams together through this work where they turn around and go, Jesus John, who’s in accounting, I always tell you you’re an asshole. I love this guy. Where’s this guy been for the last five years? And that the hug and embrace, and before you know it, the guy is an accountant who’s been difficult, certainly feels a part of something he never imagined he could.
Philip McKernan: 42:06 And vice versa. I was in the Pentagon about three years ago and I was invited to a meeting and I’ll never forget it. It was this massive, probably the biggest boardroom I’ve ever seen in my life, the biggest white paper around it. And finally there were talking about this military quote unquote issue about 22 I think was the stat at the time, military day committing suicide, which does not account for the many who are either addicted or depressed are on various types of, you know, w w medicines and whatever to to to you know, kind of an enabler, allow them to live day by day. They were talking of this military nation. I raised my on and I said, well with respect, I don’t think it’s a military issue. I think of as looked upon as a military issue. I think we’re missing the point.
Philip McKernan: 42:47 I think it’s a human identity crisis, which you and I talked about and it’s even worse, excuse me, for a military personality who not just has to eventually leave the military, they’ve got a zip down or button down the uniform. They have to take it off, drop it into, you know, the laundry basket for the last time, give it back to the metal tree or put it in their closet and close the door so they don’t just lose what they’ve done, which is a reflection of who they are because that’s part of the problem. They lose this hero status in society. I said the mothers who waved goodbye to their children, that’s the same principle. Fathers and mothers who, who sell their businesses are retire from the post office, the postal service. It’s exactly the same principle. And I remember offering this and they looked at me, the, the general or whoever’s this opportunity goes.
Philip McKernan: 43:32 Yeah. okay. Anyway, anyone else wanna make a comment and they just couldn’t even allow the patient to exist and are part of the meeting. There was a lady sitting just behind this, this, I think he was a general and she had lots of badges and decorations, excuse me if I don’t know the terminology. And she walked up to me afterwards and she looked over her right shoulder to make sure no one was around. She looked over her left shoulder, she leaned forward and she started crying and she says, my husband is at home in a basement and all he does every day for eight hours a day is play computer games. What you’re talking about is absolutely 100% buying on, but no one in the Pentagon is having the conversation. No one is having the conversation. No one wants to have the conversation because they’re scared.
Philip McKernan: 44:15 It will actually deprive or take away from the the overall quote unquote mission that we’re on to whatever, and I think it’s the complete, you and I are in 110% agreement that it is the opposite. By bringing these human conversations to the table, you allow people to commit at deeper level beyond even what they think they’re capable of. It’s about the unifies people. It brings people closer. A deepens relationships deepens this sense of community, tribe, family. So when you do go out into combat, when you do go out to put out a fire, when you do go out to build a business, we do go out to build a family. You feel connected and supported by everybody around you because they understand you because you’re human as there.
Jeff (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s.
Jeff (Host): I mean it’s, it’s, it really
Philip McKernan: [inaudible]
Jeff (Host): it’s sad to me. And I think that’s why when I looked back at this stuff, when I kinda came back into the community and the conversation still wasn’t there. And there’s still the, the, the walls up around this saying, I just, that’s where it was. It was just time to change because, you know, I believe personally, there’s no greater commitment life you can make than to serve those around you. I just firmly believe that. And you know, when you make that commitment, there’s a lot of stuff that comes with it and there’s a lot of trauma that exists in it and a lot of struggle that exists in it. And I think you’ve nailed it on the head in a lot of ways with the pieces of identity, identity versus attachment, really commitment versus attachment. Understanding the difference there because I mean it is, I, it is been, uh, you know, it’s, it’s like this conflict where when I look back at my career, the times that I felt like I was best at my job and best at who I really was and doing to what I thought it was great work in the world, I’m also failing my family cause I’m not home, I’m not with them day in and day out.
Jeff (Host): I’m not caring for my, you know, them in the way that people would think I should know. And so it’s like how the, pardon the language, but how the fuck do I exist in a state where I can go out and, and really embrace who I am, do you know, to, to solve massive problems, to respond to crisis, to do these sinks, to operate in the world and then be this gentle loving guy who can come home and hug my son or my daughters and just embrace them, you know, and not get it gone up and not get garbage on them. And not yet, you know? I mean, that’s like Whoa. And it’s overwhelming. I mean point blank. It is. It’s, it’s really one of the worst feelings I’ve ever experienced. Wow. And that, and that’s not a, that’s day. It’s a year
Philip McKernan: constant niggling and, and, and, and I feel that, you know, not that I’m trying to solve it or wrap it in a bow, but I wonder, I just don’t hear the conversation going on and maybe it happens behind closed doors. I’m unaware of, but where to shame, where is shame addressed? Where is forgiveness wrote in? Because I’m telling you, I’ve looked into the faces of so many military men and women, not, not even remotely as many as, as I’m sure you have. And I just want to put my arms around them and hug them and let them know that it’s okay. Like you know that it’s okay and that will you ma, there’s this idea that, you know, I can feel the emotion coming through me right now is that because you’re serving the country, you’re, you’re protecting other people. Whatever you’ve done, whether it’s in Iraq or whether it’s it’s, it’s in Afghanistan or whether it’s [inaudible] soil here in America or otherwise, whatever you’ve done is it’s not just okay but expect it and, and it’s actually a gift to the world.
Philip McKernan: And yet I’m looking at many of these men’s and women’s faces and they feel this immense shame and guilt around, you know, what they’ve done because it morally, and I’m not getting into what I feel in terms of, I’m just explaining what I see in their faces. And I’ve talked about Marley, you know, there were being told one thing intellectually and wildly kind of grasp it and kind of get it, get us Marley, they feel deeply conflicted. And I just feel that that’s the conversation that needs to happen because when they put down their uniform, when they walk away and they have to assimilate back into their own families, their own society, and continue, they have to live with what they have actually done regardless of why they did it. And, and often they’re not at peace with that. And how do we create an environment?
Philip McKernan: How do we continue to have conversations to allow them to process and to, uh, to address these things, these demons inside of them? Um, because I think what happens is we start to believe you’ve had a core, we’re, we’re bad people and we walk around looking. A lot of the military that I’ve worked, they don’t, they look guilty. They walk around with this guilty sheepish, you know, kind of almost undeserving sense because they feel that they’ve portrayed their family when they spend five years in service or vice versa. I think that needs, that. That conversation also needs to be pretty brought to the surface in a proactive way. That’s the key. Not in a reactive way. Well, if someone comes back and from, from war and they have PTSD, whatever, well, okay, let’s address it. You know, if they’ve got significant signs and volatility and this comes out in anger or they may hurt themselves or they’re there, they’re turning to types of drugs or alcohol addiction to cope with this gap in their hearts or their souls.
Philip McKernan: Why do we have to wait for this shit to happen? Why can’t we be proactive? And say, listen, we’re gonna assume this is going to happen. How do we set it up and have dialogues that when you come back from each service that you go into this sequence of conversations begin to process and understand what you’ve been through, what you’ve been asked to do, which is either in alignment with you or maybe it’s outside of the line with you and to heal at a very high level. Um, I think that’s, that’s something that will be massively important.
Jeff (Host): Yeah, I mean, my moonshot, what I decided at the end of 2018 beginning of 2019 in a great conversational, great by moonshot 110% is to end clean up. I firmly believe that we have conversations like this early on, that if we lay the foundation for freedom of sharing, of freedom of expression, freedom of understanding that you are at your core, a human being, and by the way, because you’re human, you come with these things, they don’t get shut off. You weren’t born without them. You know what I mean? You deal like this and if we can train you early, if we can create a persistent conversation early, we don’t have the effects. I mean, I, I stand on this, like you, I piss people off when I say this all the time. I and I, and I, and I get pinged by a lot of people on it.
Jeff (Host): I’m firmly believed that PTSD is like 1% of the greater issue we’re dealing with now. Everybody’s lumped every, every struggle, every issue, everything coming back from into a PTSD box because now I can pill it or drug it or do you know what I mean? I, there’s a mill, there’s a structured solution to that. That’s easy. I believe firmly that it’s like PTSD is actually like 1% of the issue. You know what I mean? There’s the identity crisis, the feeling like a failure, the struggle in a moral injury. And you know, a DOE conflict is created between logical and emotional thinking. Right? And what those to me are the underlying issues that we’re not dealing with. We’re not speaking about, we’re not bringing up. Instead, we’re just going, well, you know, you must have be, you know, you went to combat, you must have PTSD. Well, yeah, you spent 10 years in the fire service. Sure. You’ve seen stuff. It’s like, ah,
Jeff (Host): I don’t buy it. I can’t, I’ve lived it. You know what I mean? I, yeah, I don’t get, I don’t buy it. I don’t buy it. I think it’s, I think we’re, I think like you said, setting in that Pentagon, that’s a very clear picture of what we’re up against and a lot of ways around this. Yeah. Struggle.
Philip McKernan: So I, um, you know, I, I know we’re getting on to time here, fell up. I sawmy moon shot just to give you a sense, well as, um, through the lens of one last talk and, and the one last, you know, different Mo, you know, kind of sweets of word that we’re creating is to eradicate loneliness in the world. And I think loneliness has, is probably the greatest pandemic the world is facing at the moment. Um, I, we’re going to do that through the lens of healing. And, um, healing creates connection within ourselves. And other people. And I think what happens as a result of that, the byproduct is that loneliness doesn’t get a chance to even breathe or exist. Um, and, and that’s, that’s, you know what, I’m, what I’m here to do. And, uh, I’d love you to actually do a one last talk in, uh, in Boulder in early next year. By the way, I was going to ask you off, but I’m just going to throw it on.
Philip McKernan: I, so I just, I ran one last talk last week in mastermind talks that you and I both know that community, we’ve run it in a prison recently. Um, it is, it is. I don’t think it’s the only thing in the world, but I’m, I’m obviously very biased, but it’s, it’s, it’s the thing that I speak about with, with such pride because it’s not about me, Jeff. It’s bigger than me. It’s more important than even the current will ever be. And it’s, it’s, it’s, I’ve never come across a tool that helps people heal and allow them to see other people. And we brought it into our prison as we share very quickly. Uh, you probably won’t be able to bring it into a prison. And if you do, you won’t be able to get an audience and I can guarantee you you’re never going to get permission to record the talks at we achieved all trade because our intentionality behind us was, was, was one of, of humanizing these men and women who are senior in societies, just evil, bad people.
Philip McKernan: And while I’m not here to justify their behaviors ever, um, these people who have been brought up in certain situations and circumstances who have been hurt in many ways, I can begin to understand how they have seen the world perhaps in a distorted way, and therefore acted in a distorted way and ultimately ended up behind bars. Um, we had six men in Southern Colorado share their one last talks in a prison. Uh, we had an audience and I’ve never in my life experienced ever healing. Um, I’ll give you one quick example and I’ll leave it at this as that one of the men was a sex offender and he didn’t get up and justify his behavior. He basically just gave us his story. And it, I’ve never been more stretched at such a deep human level at in my life. I mean, it’s stretched every part of my essence because of my judgments and my prejudice and everything else.
Philip McKernan: And well, this man shared one man, this was only one part of his life and that he was raped every single day for six months by his own father. And that’s just one part of the violence that he experienced as a young, young kid growing up in the world. And you could begin to see how, Oh my God, what? It doesn’t negate the behavior. You can begin it. You can begin to see how the world was formed for him or how he was formed within the world. And what was fascinating, we had three women in the audience, volunteers who came in, three women who had all been sexually abused. And each of them went up and embraced him at the end of and held him and thanked him for his talk. And one of them said, I don’t want him to leave. I don’t want him to go back into the general population.
Philip McKernan: I don’t want him to be hurt. And the tears pouring down her face and her husband said he’d never seen anything like it. Of all the years of therapy and all the years of talking through everything she’s been through and all the trauma she’s been through in those 15 minutes when this man shared his truth, everything was forgiven. And I want to do my dream. And it’s so funny that you and I are talking to unwant one last talk in military, but I want the military personnel, firefighters sharing some of these stories and how they are in relationship, their narratives to free themselves, forgive themselves, and allow other people to do the same. And that’s, that’s, that’s why I’m here and that’s why I exist. And that’s why,
Jeff (Host): well, we’re going to do it. I’m gonna, I’m going to hang up and make a phone call after this to a particular individual who has been on this podcast who shall remain nameless, baltal and, uh, at, at, uh, at use the sock. And I’m actually gonna probably reach out to congenital Cleveland. And, uh, I think we’re gonna do this, uh, in some ways. And Stu Ferris and a couple of these other guys who I know are,
Philip McKernan: are, uh,
Jeff (Host): willing to have the conversations that most aren’t. And so I, um, I’m firmly committed to that because I think it is a tool and a process that I, that’s why I wanted to have you on the show. And you know what I said, Amy, to know, she’s like, well, it’ll be a few months. I’m like, okay, well wait, I don’t really care how long it takes to get you on. So man, I appreciate it. Thank you. And thanks for taking your time. I know you’re crazy busy and I greatly appreciate it. Now you just finished a session, you’re exhausted. Um, and to give what you’ve given today. I, I, I really thank you
Philip McKernan: for that, Jeff. Anytime, anytime I can serve you what you’re doing, I love what you do and I love your energy. I love your vulnerability. Um, I, you know, I anytime I can serve you your audience, uh, again, uh, not to try to make excuses for, I am very exhausted today. Uh, if we want to ever have a conversation, I would prioritize and make sure that it happens. And I really appreciate you. Um, I appreciate what you’re doing. I appreciate it.
Jeff (Host): That, and I just want to say to listening audience one, uh, you know, all the Phil stuff. Well, I will make sure it’s all available to everyone listening, uh, his book, his processes, what they are, what’s coming. Uh, and you know, given what’s been happening in the fire service and law enforcement community, listen, if any of this hits has hit with you, if you’re struggling, if you’re struggling with where to have that conversation or who to have that conversation with you, fucking call me. You email me. I get messages all the time from the community and I’m here. I answer my email. Uh, it comes to me. So don’t even blink for a second. You just get on and call. Uh, cause that’s what this entire, this is the new community. This is the new tribe here that we’ve created. So Phillip, thank you again for coming on and taking the time greatly. Appreciate it. Uh, is there anything else that you want to leave the audience with?
Philip McKernan: Yeah, ultimately I think, you know, the, the one thing that I see more and more and more, no matter what it is we want to achieve and who we want to be and who we think we are as the thing I feel that a lot of us ignore is just how do we feel about ourselves. You know, can we close our eyes at night and be comfortable in our own skin? Can we look at ourselves in the mirror with a, with a degree of acceptance and pride and, and regardless of the goals and aspirations and the dreams that anyone has. Um, the starting point for me is working on how we are in the world, within our own skin. And I feel whatever you need to do to begin to heal and to allow yourself to show up in the world in a better way. I think that’s the most important work that most people actually ignore our bypass. And they wonder why life is tough for them. So if that makes sense for some people, great. And if not, I trust that. And, uh, again, Jeff, thanks for having me on.
Jeff (Host): Absolutely, sir. Absolutely.
ABOUT PHILIP…
“Inspirational Speaker, Writer & Filmmaker”
Philip works with entrepreneurs and business leaders all over the world. When people are seeking clarity about their future or want to move through roadblocks, seen and unseen, they call Philip. As a speaker, he has inspired and challenged the Canadian Olympic Team and The Pentagon to name a few. He is also the founder and is spearheading the One Last Talk™ movement.
He helps people get clear on who they are and where they need to go. He helps them transition in their personal and professional lives so people feel aligned in all areas of life. Philip believes who and what we do ‘off the ice’ has a huge impact on our results ‘on the ice’. His groundbreaking Team Deepening™ work with organizations gives teams a refreshing way to connect and build real and collective resilience.
What separates Philip from a lot of coaches, speakers and gurus is originality. He brings new conversations to the table and spends an obscene amount of time thinking and challenging the status quo, instead of simply repackaging business & life hacking strategies. Philip McKernan is a philosopher, a modern day philosopher of the human experience. His pioneering philosophy around SoulSet™ equips and empowers people to uncover their gifts and impact the world.
With a knack of getting into all sorts of scenarios – he’s caddied in golf for the President of Ireland, been chased and nearly killed by a bull elephant in Nigeria and made wine in Australia. He has traveled to 80 countries around the globe, built an orphanage in Peru, written 5 books despite being dyslexic and created his first documentary film called Give & Grow. The film explores how the gift of giving makes us feel more worthy and alive. It also explores the science behind the impact of giving on our emotional well being, our mental health, our physiology, and our businesses.
Philip believes the path to a happy and fulfilling life is found through the meaning we derive in life through the WORK we do, our relationship to OTHERS and the most important relationship of all, the one with one’s SELF.
WEBSITE: https://philipmckernan.com
ONE LAST TALK: https://onelasttalk.com
THE BOOK: https://onelasttalk.com/the-book/
